The army has never been good at personnel management. Military Service Obligation | RAND The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . That is completely and totally gone. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. Service commitments are different for Warrant Officers in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard. Ironically, the reason why Congress established a limit on entry into flight training is because the Army in the late 60's and early 70's started to funnel relatively large numbers of maneuver General Officers through flight school. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Cookie Notice The US Army is missing the boat by not letting seasoned professionals into flight school. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. How is my list for OCS? : r/army - Reddit The Army says it needs the UH-72 for training because it teaches the use of glass cockpit and other advanced technology. My formation barely ever conducts social events. On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. , this is far from guaranteed. The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . Posted on . USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). Im a turd for putting 2021. The AvB is used to offer bonuses to aviators with critical skills or MOSs. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. This is doubly applicable for aviation formations. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. This is anecdotal, of course, but nowadays there is no appreciable down time. The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. Probably a 11-11.5 year commitment. positivism constructivism or interpretivism and pragmatism army aviation 10 year adso. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. I retired in 1998. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. Hah oh good catch. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and. Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. Im a career guy so I dont mind but initially it can be daunting. Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. I wish thiswasa little more clear. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. 10 year ADSO - General Military Helicopter Discussions - Vertical We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. Signal: The IT department of the Army. The B-2 about to get fuel: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom. More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. PDF Aviation Service of Rated Army Officers - United States Army Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. By If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. No. How do Warrant Officers get promoted? Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. Glad I retired when I did. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. 10 year ADSO is official : r/Armyaviation - reddit That's what the Army was counting on. In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. As a good mentor, I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. This! for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) They wont, we already dont get the congressionally authorized flight pay. Posted in these groups: Pilot Officers Warrant Officers This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. While the ADSO goes into effect in October, its effect on retention wont be felt for at least six years after the first ten-year ADSO class graduateslikely not until late 2027. The First 10 Year ADSO Class : Armyaviation - reddit Well, the short answer is, we dont know. NO WOFT POSTS. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. Army Aviation Leaders should. What I would like to add is almost the opposite of some of these comments. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. Finally, the thing not being said about sending senior NCOs to flight school is the socialization at the company level piece. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. The increase in the ADSO will have profound affect on USMA/ROTC cadets. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. Time will tell. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. Stan figured that even spending 5 years in a non-flying job, this track would make him a military pilot well below the USAFs current age limit (33 years old), and would actually get him to the airlines sooner than his Active Duty pilot peers. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. People are tired. However, he missed out on that Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path and is concerned about a 10-year UPT ADSC. The Army only draws between 300-400 non prior WOFT applcants yearly. I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. As a Guard or Reserve pilot, you may need to find a full-time flying job in addition to your military flying (full-time Guard/Reserve pilot jobs are available, but you should join with the expectation of needing civilian employment in addition to your military flying). Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? Unfortunately, it will likely not have the opportunity to do so due to the negative impact it will have on retention in the near term. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. It's kinda like a Yelp! BrADSO - I signed for one, but then I know for a fact that it wasnt required/taken but its still on my iPERMS. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. 10 Year ADSO Discussion - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. This used to be unheard of. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. Deployed Civil Engineers https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers. For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about military flying that made you want to do it in the first place?. I got out because I wanted to fly, but kept getting stuck in staff positions where I either couldn't fly, or had limited opportunities to fly. Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? Such changes may affect my status, The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. We need better leadership courses that foster problem solving, the importance of critical thinking, and using surrounding talent to identify the cause of issues/solutions. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Thoughts anyone? I'd sign a 15 year ADSO if they gave me an age waiver (I'm only 35 not 65!). I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. PDF Rotc Branch for Active Duty Service Obligation (Adso) Contract Has this officially started? What is the real answer? Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. Army Aviation: Alternatives to the 10-year Service Obligation 10 year ADSO started FY21. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. Given the pandemic's direct and indirect effects on the aviation industry, is that even going to a concern going forward. How to Join and Requirements Scholarship Opportunities Cadet Life , Network, As the COVID-19 crisis continues to drag on, I cant help asking my crystal ball how things are going to shake out. This used to be unheard of. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. Across the force, warrant officer recruiters are actively on the lookout to fill their ranks. PDF Selection of Army Aviation Officers and Warrant Officers Special and Incentive Pay Index - U.S. Department of Defense 10 is nuts. Question for the Salty Dogs: 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation - reddit Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. I know this is an old article but as a graduating senior this policy is stupid. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side.